Viel modification thoughts

[Rupert Lucius]

When you guys with Viels sharpen into belt rotation, do you do it on or off platen?

On and Off - for me.

Using light touch most sharpeners will have no problem.

Consider using a piece of cold or hot rolled steel into the rotation - if you have any "shakey" thoughts do not move on to a knife.

Rupert

[Ken S]

Excellent question, Grepper.
Excellent answer, Rupert.

Ken

[Ken S]

After recovering from a package lost in shipping and some family commitments, the Viel conversion project will continue. My time has been monopolized this week assembling my remaining film photography gear to sell later this morning at a local dealer sponsored swap meet. (clever marketing, once a year, host a swap meet and get customers accostumed to coming to the store/classroom facilities). Hopefully all will be sold br two this afternoon, and I can get on with Gen III Viel conversion.

The conversion should proceed quickly. Rupert very generously sent me a machined bracket and smaller diameter pulley. I have the very helpful photos Henry posted as a guide.

I plan to clamp the bracket in place inside the Viel frame. Using a transfer punch, I will align two holes and drill them. Then I will temporarily remount the bracket on the outside of the frame and drill the remaining three holes. I believe one of the holes would interfere with the belt if I use a hex head bolt. I will countersink that hole and use a flat head machine screw there, just like I did for the four screws which secure the wooden housing to the Viel frame. Using flat head screws allows laying the Viel flat for horizontal work with or without the platen.

With the lower and off to one side motor positioning for the smaller pulley, I will have enough onboard cord storage area to permit adding a carrying handle.

I will post photos.

Ken

[Rupert Lucius]

Ken

Consider putting together a kit for other sharpeners if all works out? 

I, do not know of any variable speed machine at any price that will compete with your Gen III,  Nothing?

Anyone,  please speak up if you know of a variable speed sharpening machine (belt or etc) anything that is semi portable and or affordable.  There may be one?

Yes!  WorkSharp has their Ken Onion, are there others?

12/15 years ago we created a one time off using a Sorby belt machine - it was for a well known wood carver - who required lower, lower LFPM.

At that time we did not have the Penn motor to work with.

Rupert

[Ken S]

Rupert,  

I had the same thought for an enterprising small shop or home shop machinist. Making up several predrilled metal brackets would be an easy task for a drill press operator. So would drilling a few Viel frames. The shaft and pulley needed to be mated, either be boring out the pulley or turning down the shaft.

I think the Gen III Viel is a marvelous machine, and, compared to other sharpening equipment, a real bargain. I do not know if it would be a profitable project for a machinist. I have neither the machine shop nor adequate skills to do such a project. Having the job professionally done would increase the cost to the neighborhood of four hundred dollars, including Viel, motor, extra pulley and machining work. How much interest would we have at that price level?

An alternative would be to have someone post a well done drawing of the bracket to locate the holes. Perhaps a second drawing for locating the holes on the Viel frame.

Ken

[Rupert Lucius]

Ken

Don and I have given thought to different projects - excellent projects with no interest from the audience at less than cost.

Sharpeners are creative people and want to do their own project(s)?

Others want a turn key package?

We once did the Delta SA120 and the Grizzly H 8192 into a 3 or 4 speed belt machine.

Mr. B shared with us that it was a "heavy sucker" about 42 pounds. He owned a Prius!

Mr. Jerry Hossom (knife maker in Duluth Georgia USA) told us the machines foot print was to large for apartments.

Both men were spot on, spot on they were.

Then we talked with Bearing and Service in Shreveport and they made up a complete kit less the machine for 65$ and over a period of time they shipped out 76 kits - pulleys, key stock, belt with freight included.

The Viel/Penn is so portable and with a small foot print. Who knows?

Physically and mentally I am not there at this time in life. On the other side of the coin my thought is that you could be the man and or our Moderator Mark?

We modified and shipped 37 complete Deltas or Grizzlys.

The person that wanted a turn key machine shipped to us their new machine from wherever or whoever purchased. TRUST!! we immediately shipped them a new tested and ready to go machine - no one ever cheated us - TRUST!!

My thoughts are that we could get the same thing working with the 3 3/4" wheel with set screw and 0.59 bore or a motor with 1/2" shaft dia and 3 3/4" wheel with set.

For you, Don, Mark, Mr. EOU and or any other interested person I, will assist in any way possible. It is a darn nice machine (Viel/Penn Gen III). May be Dan Brown will step forward?

The Kalamazoo SM 1 is even easier to attach a Penn motor. Knowing what I know the SM1 does not lend it self to scissors and other items - the Viel is a more versatile play toy.

Rupert

[Ken S]

Rupert,

I agree that the Viel Generation III is a fine machine. I appreciate the help you and others have given me with this project. I am pleased to post whatever help I can for other members making conversions.
I can certainly share that the way I have done the project is definitely not cost efficient. I purchased the bare Viel unit from Lee Valley, which is fine. After I discovered that none of my three shop motors were the correct size, I purchased a motor from Viel. The motor (fixed speed, now not used) is fine, as was the service from Viel. I have found Viel's instructions bare bones at best. I have also never received a reply from the two emails I sent to Tech support at Penn State Industries. (That makes the advice from this exchange even more valuable, my only good source of information.

I spent $150 having a local motor repair shop turn down my motor shaft and install a reversing switch. Their work was adequate, and I realize the job was priced as a "one off" job. I have close to four hundred dollars in this job, and I have done a lot of the work myself. This is not cost efficient.

The cost efficient way should have three choices:

The first choice would be to post in depth instructions for someone with machinist skills to the entire job himself.

The second choice would be to provide directions for the person to do some of the work himself with some of it being done by a motor or machine shop. These directions would benefit from a list of known good and reasonably priced machine shops, or at least one

The third choice, the turnkey option, would be to find a machine shop to do the entire job. The cost would go down if the order was for ten or twenty units. In this case, someone would need to fund the project, and reasonably expect a reasonable business return on his capital.

I believe this is a good project. Even at Gen I and II, I like the performance of the Viel. It is a useful sharpening and grinding tool. I am glad to advise others with their own conversions. At the risk of seeming selfish, I have neither the skill, time nor desire to undertake this project for others.

I suggest that those interested post their desire to included in the project. Once plans are drawn up, the hunt for a good machine shop should begin. By banding together, everyone would get a good job at a lower cost.

Ken

[Ken S]

Ansel Adams once said there was nothing worse than a sharp picture of a fuzzy concept. I have run into a snag with the plate alignment of my Viel Gen III conversion. I consider this a bump along the road, rather than a wrong turn. Gen II, changing from a fixed speed motor to a variable speed motor with a reversing switch, has proved a notable step forward for an already useful tool. I firmly believe that Gen III, using the same variable speed motor and remounting it with a smaller drive pulley for increased torque, will prove to be a significant improvement over Gen II.  We just need to work through the bugs with the mounting plate. We will succeed; it will just take longer than initially expected.

Ken

[Mark Reich]

Mr Ken, looking at my Mr Rupert Special Edition Super Veil, or Gen III, I think, I can't see where one could go wrong.

If you let me in on the problem, I might be able to help?

[Ken S]

Thanks, Mark.

I think I went wrong by misinterpreting a photo and offsetting the plate. What I need is some quiet time in the shop with my Viel and machinist's layout tools. Once I determine the correct positioning, I can cut off any excess with my bandsaw and redrill as necessary. Rupert is sending me another piece of aluminum plate.

My main constraint at present is time. I am heading up the annual fund at my grandchildren's school as well as working with the strategic planning committee. Once things are up and running I should have some shop time.

I will keep everyone posted. Gen III will fly!

Ken