Old sharpening methods...

[Edgepal]

This picture shows a Medivial method for sword sharpening. If you study this picture you se that they use special wood tools to hold the edge angle. The tool is triangel where one side can be moved and they also use a  angle suport.

On the table below the sword you can se a cow antler. In this antler is fat mixed with fine quartz sand as abrasaive.

Can we learn anything from this old method?

Thomas

[Edgepal]

Pic 2

Here they use yhe same method as in pic 1 - but here they use a piece of fabric as the third aide of the triangel.
They are not sharpen the edge here, they are making (grinding out) the fuller in the middle of the blade.

They still use the cow antler with fat and Abressive  material, probebly Quartz sand.

Can we learn something from this Medivial method ?

Thomas

[KnifeGrinders]

This is so fascinating, the pictures and the story behind them.
We definitely can learn from these guys!

Have you got more?

[Jan]

Mr. Thomas, thanks for sharing those beautiful ancient pictures. The pictures are really very instructive.

For me it is an unusual way of fuller introduction. The standard way in bladesmithing was usage of spring swage or swage blocks. The material from the fuller escaped sideways and formed a bulge. It is interesting that fullering did not weaken the blade.

Jan

[Edgepal]

When a turning wheel come in form of an rotation grinding stone - the convex edge changed to a hollow ede as standard becouse every farm bought a grinding wheel. (Flat edges come long time later when diamond sharpeners come = shapeners that do not chans is forms during use).

People also soon find out that also the side of the turning week could be used dor shapening - and that - if this surface was really flat - and the Guy was skilled - could give good flat edges. Stones with flat sides was more expensive - so few people had them.

For the first time tye Abressive material was in the grinding stone and they use water to get a skuret - and they stop using fat mixed with fine Quartz sand.

They also find out that a big wheel give less hollow edge - and that small wheel give a deep hollow edge.

Yes, we an learn many things from old Medivial paintings - and we also need to understand that this paintings was high tec when they was made - and that there is centuries of experiance of sharpening and knife use to get the knife knowledge to this Medivial high tec levell.

For me they tell that people for 500 years ago understod that they need support during the sharpwning process in different ways to get quality edges - and that a simple wood triangel with a movable third side could be used to get wanted exact angles, perhaps not i degrees that we use today - but from what angle they traditional and out from use know was functional for different swords, knifes and axes.

It also tells, dor 500 years ago, people understood that fat and fine Quartz sand work veey good dor shapening - and that they can use quars sand in different grits against a hard surface - and against softer wood surface to get different results. Today many thinks that diamond dust in oil are a new and modern  innivation, it is, as you can se, not a new innovation. It is not a new function or method either, it is a copy of a 500 year old way of sharpening - with dust of diamond instead of dust if Quartz sand.

Today we have modern material, higher qualitys, finer grits, and so on - but we sill use old methods that sometimes are 6000 years old wen we sharpen.

[Edgepal]

   

This picture shows hollow chissels that was made for around 6000 years ago during the stoneage. The hollow form are grinded to its form. We so not know exactly how - but we think that wooden rods was made, smoothen, and that they use fat and Quartz sand as Abressive - and LOTs of time to do the job.. They use this rod as we use a big file - we think - but perhaps they was able to rotate the rod and hold the stone against the rod when it rotate. That would give more meters grinding surface per minute - and also a fixed angle.

The stone is a veey hard type of stone, not soft stone, becouse the chissel must hold for its work to hollow sifferent things in wood.

Thomas

[Edgepal]

   

This pictures shows knifes from:
1. Stoneage, about 5-6000 years old
2. Bronsage, about 4-5000 yeqrs old
3. Bronsage, about 3000 years old
4. Early viking time, from around the year 790
5. Late viking time, from around the year 900-950
6. Medivial knife, from around the year 12-1300

Study the knifes and se how they have changed - or not change

Suringvthe older stoneage people use 3 different tools, a pointy tool to make holes with, a curved edged tool to scrape and skin with, and a sharp tool with straight edge to slice with.

Later they innovate a tool that was the dirst multi tool in the world, a tool that was pointy, had a curved edge and have a straight edge = in princip the knife we use also today, about 6000 years later.

For 6000 years ago the stoneage people here started to grind their tools. Not to make them shaper, they have råeggen that was a lot sharpener then we have today - they grinded there edged rools ro get a more functional edge, an edge that holds for hard work = duller edge with more material in and behind the edge. They have found out that a edge shall only be as sharp as it need to be for its purpouse. They still have scarry sharp knocked 1 molecyle thick edges - but they now needed tools also dor hard work, slicing and chopping wood, felling trees, and ao on - and their edges must hold dor this type of work also.

In the same time, they was still nomads. Eveeything they need in their lifes they also must be able ro carry wih them. Things and tools weights a lot together - so they started to make Multi tools = one rool that can make many different things = low weight for many functions.

During the bronze age they mold their knifes and swords in clay forms. When the iron age come they needed blacksmith that can form the iron to what they needed - and during the iron age they was no longer nomads, ghey was farmers sins some decades back - and the blacksmith lived in a village with his things and tools for forming iron.

It is avveey short description, sorry for that, but it desceibe how we humans went from hunters/gatherers to farmers and village living people - and how our tools anges in both materials and forms. This is a description from Europe and Scandinavia.

The step from stoneage to ironage was a lot faster (and it not incloude bronsage) information example America. But - the immigrants that arrived ti USA come from Europe and ther old history was European history and background. The US nativ people went from stoneage to Medivial time in a few deccades.

Thomas

[Rupert Lucius]

Thomas -

Thank you for the fast walk through the last 6000 years.

Continue to share your stories with me and the Exchange.

Thank you

Rupert

[Edgepal]

To grind and also polish stone axes they made a slits in a rock. Then they move the axe along the slitsande use water and Quartz sand in different grits, from coarse to fine. To polish the axe they probebly use fine sand made from fine sandstones.

The slits could be used during long time for bigger and bigger axes. We have thousends of this slits - and they are named "svardslipningsskaror" in Swedish, "sword grindingtable slits" translated ro English

Search on internet with the Swedish name and then pictures and you will se man photos of those slitses.


Rupert, yes, this is very short and fast 6000 year of knife development and knife design there can be many books in tis matter. I think that history are important but a lot off people dont like history - so I keep it short

Traitional knifes are allways designed out off use and needs. The design are made to solve a specific problem.
Today knifes are designed to be sold and they are often designed by a office desk surviver...

Traditional knifes are allways designed for traditional materials, that often means soft materials as fresh wood, huds, fresh meat and so on. Few people today work in those materials - they work in modern hard materials as dry wood, rubber, plastic, frozen meat, dry leather and so on - that traitional edges not are designed to work in.
City peoples edges today hold aound 40 degrees edges total to stand modern materials - my edges hold 18-26 degrees to be used in traitional materials.

People today thinks that edes shall be as sharp as possible and use shapness as a meassuring how good knifes work - traditionals say that edges shall only be as sharp they need to be for theres purpouse, not shaper then that.

Today we have special tools to meassure sharpness and that is nice. But - I have still to se a table or graf where there someone describe that this levell of sharpness is perfect for this and that type of knifework... They all describe how sharp an ede can be...and only that. Shapness have gone to be the goal to reach - when levell of shapness is the important thing together with blade design and profile. That is why we have both razors and huntingknifes and other types of knifes with offerings blade design, blade profile - and edges in different levells of sharpness.

Thomas

[Bud]

It is hard to imagine how a stone could carry a sharp enough edge to be used as wood gouge. Don't mistake me, I'm not doubting it, it just amazes me. These things are so interesting. Your pictures and histories of knives are really great Mr. edgepal. Thanks so much for sharing them!