Yakut knifes

[Edgepal]

Evenki knifes or Yakut knifes from north/East Siberia have a strange blade. Se pictures here:

https://siberian-forged-knives.myshopify.com



The right side if the blade are flat with a big deep fuller, the left side have a convex edge or a flat edge.

I do not know the reason for this blade design - but I like to know

The people that use this knife work with reindeers and they hunt and fish and work a lot in wood and antler.
I have live like that for many years and I can guess some funktions... When working in wood some times I use the knife as a plain. This blade design work like a plain with its flat  That make this knife more useful in my mind - but it is a guess, nothing more.

The big fuller I do not understand - but it is of cause a reason for it.

The left side have Scandi grind and convex edge mostly = it make this knife work as a normal knife for right handed people.

Someone who knows more about this type of knife?

Thomas

[Mark Reich]

Well, if you google the image, it seems to be simply stylistic of Siberian forged blades. There's quite a bit to go on.

In some pictures you can see a lot of writing in relief inside the fuller.

It seems to me that sort of writing would be very difficult to produce, unless there was a die with the writing cut out. Then you'd just have to lay the die on the anvil and do most of the forging from the other side.

It would save a considerable amount of steel without affecting the strength of the blade much.

[Edgepal]

What I know about this fuller it is compressor in the material - if so, there is no material saved. In my mind, there must be a practical use for this big fuller? Perhaps used to make up fire in a special way?

No, all Sibirian knifes sont have this big fuller or are singel beveled. Most Sibirian knifes are Scansi type knife with Scandi type edges, only the Yakut people use this design.

1, the flat right side is not unique - but it is very rare on belt knifes - and common on Japan kitchen knifes. I guess that it is used as a plain in woodwork.

2, the big fuller on the flat side is unique on belt knifes.

Thomas

[Mark Reich]

I very much appreciate you bringing up this style of knife, Mr. Thomas! From research, I found them referred to as "Siberian Yakut knives", probably because most people don't know where Yakut is.

I traced your photo back to HERE, where there are more pictures of this knife. If you blow up the first picture, you can see what I mean about the writing in relief. I found many different types of fullers in this style.

THIS page shows one way to forge the fuller, and describes it's purpose, at least from one Yakut bladesmith's view.

It is all very interesting to me, of course, since I could definitely see me forging knives like this. Obviously there is more than one way to forge almost anything, and more than one purpose to the fuller. 

In one version the fuller is very useful, as it's purpose is to make precise sharpening easier, like that of Japanese woodworking chisels. In fact, blades like this would make good razors. 

In another bladesmith's version, the fuller is obviously less useful, and more decorative IMHO.

[Edgepal]

Thanks for your answer

Text inside the fuller is a modern thing - and this is a old traditional knife. I so not know what languish the Yakot people speak - and I so not know if this languish is only a talking languish or if they also can write the languish. Many languish innthein part of the world are only talking languish.

the blacksmith say that the blade slide better becouse of the fuller bexouse less friction. It can be a explanation - but I am not sure that it is the correct answer... Slide better against what material?

This people is a arctic people,mthey live on the taiga (where there is trees) and they live also north of the taiga (where there is no trees at all) they use two sizes of knife depends onnInyerne they live - and both sizes have this big fuller... So I think there is more to the big fuller then friction...

in the olde days it must have been a lot of extra work to make this big fuller, it is a big hard jobb to do - so the fuller must be very important for this people - and they are the only people on Earth that have this big fuller on their knifes.

It can be a religius thing (or similar) - it have perhaps nothing to do with the use?

Thomas

[Mark Reich]

The friction they speak of is a misnomer. Actually, the large fuller makes it easier to sharpen because you don't have to remove much steel. On the fuller side, you lay the whole blade on the stone, but the blade only touches the stone where it's Not Fullered. The fullered side is Dead Flat, except for the fuller. There is no edge bevel on the fullered side. 

In the other pictures in the first link, you can see how the off side is ground sort of Skandi-ish. That would dictate the edge angle, because this sort of grind doesn't use any edge bevel. 

I would say it's not that difficult to forge a big fuller into the blade. Of course it takes the right equipment to make it easier, and a little practice would help, but I know I could forge blades like this. I actually want to, and probably will.

The secret is simply forging the fuller first, then just grinding the bevels on the other side. If you had an angled swage block, or a shallow angle cut out of your anvil, it would be very easy to forge these blades.

Now that I've seen this, I'm surprised it isn't more common, but the reason for the fuller would be largely defeated unless you want a very thin edge (like a razor). It's the same for Japanese yanagibas, which are used for making very thin slices of fish for sushi. If you aren't making sushi, you might not want a yanagi.

It's like THIS or any other yanagi. One side has a big wide bevel (like a Skadi grind). The "back" side is hollow ground, so when you lay the back side of the blade on the stone, the stone only touches the perimeter of the hollow ground, which means you barely take any steel off that side. When you sharpen these, you scrub most of the steel off the big flat bevel, then deburr by laying the hollow ground side flat on the stone. With Yakut knives, the fuller acts like the hollow ground side of a yanagi.

This is not to say that you couldn't add a microbevel (or small primary bevel) to the "Skandi" grind opposite the fuller side, to increase the edge angle to make the blade suitable for normal tasks. The fuller side would always remain perfectly flat. 

A lot of people "cheat", and microbevel yanagis too, which makes them Very much easier to sharpen. It also provides a much less acute edge angle, which makes the edge much stronger.

If that's not perfectly clear, I'll take pictures of my yanagi.

[Edgepal]

I understand your description and what you compare with - but I daubt that what you say is the reason for the fuller.

This is a nomad people, they dont even have a hammer, the hammer weight is to much to carry with them... They probebly bought or trade their knifes from other people - and that people made this blade with the big fuller for just this people by command. No big fuller - and they did not by the blade. No other people innthe area or xlose ro this area use this blade type...

The Sami people I lived with bought their blades in Borway from blacksmiths there - and so did i to start with, later I found a blade Smith in Sweden that made fantastic good blades (I started ro make knifes during the sixties).

Blacksmiths design their blades on demand from thwir customers - and after a while he find a design everyone in the area like to have. All did makes Scandi type blades - but the blades has small differances so people could se what blqdesmith that have make the blade. Some Sami only bought blades from a specific bladesmith bescouse he makes "the best blades". Not only the blade design waa important, also steel quality and hardening was important.
Well home again the Sami people make the handle and sheath them self.
This is a typical nomad way to do things - ans buisness.

When nomads work in wood they try to find a balance of so light and strong things as possible. Everything shall be as light as possible, this becouse they must carry eveeything them self - or their reindeers will carry them. To own a lot of things give them trouble with weight... Tye flat side works like a plain if you hold the handle in one hand and the blade neck in your other hand and a piece of wood in your third hand
(Joking). Planning give good surfaces and less weight. That can be why the right side of the blade are plain, compare with japanese knifes, they have the left aide of the blade plain - not the right side = the Yakot people did not use the flat side for slicing,.,but - slicing frozen meat cab be a possibilitie = they "plaining" of frusen meat in thin slices with this knifes flat side against the meat - and I can see that the fuller then give less possibility to freeze and fasten in the meat... But my knife never fasten in frozen meat ... That is a problem with this idea....

Thomas