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+--- Thread: Opinions and advice on my sharpness tester idea. (/showthread.php?tid=307)
RE: Opinions and advice on my sharpness tester idea. - Mark Reich - 04-19-2018
Heh heh! Gotta admire the blatant truth as seen from a good vantage point.
Mike has indeed standardized a sharpness measuring system for the masses. BESS measurements count. Others don't.
RE: Opinions and advice on my sharpness tester idea. - Mike Brubacher - 04-19-2018
Thank you very much for your support of the BESS KG and Mark both past and present. Mark is among the very first to see the value of a universal sharpness scale and KG has worked very hard to make the system known in, not only his corner of the world, but the entire world. So thank you both very much!
As I indicated in a previous post, Blade Banter (hereafter referred to as "BB") and I have corresponded several times privately and I can tell you that he is a bright guy with good ideas. He has been forthright with me about what he is attempting and I have offered him both advice and help in his endeavor. He asked me, in advance, if he could post his questions to the Exchange and I said "absolutely". We have to distinguish between what EOU and BESSU are doing from the efforts of folks like BB. As KG alluded to, there have been people trying to accomplish what BB is attempting for many years and a few have enjoyed some degree of personal success with their projects. We have one fairly prolific member of this Exchange who has done exactly that. These home-made systems can be very useful in a relative sense. Much more useful than many of the anecdotal methods used, in our opinion. Of course, what they all lack is the ability to communicate their sharpness information to the rest of us in a meaningful way. Every day we get emails filled with descriptions of edges and BESS sharpness numbers and we know and understand immediately what our customers are telling us. If you want to know the truth and with no doubt in my mind, that is the most gratifying part of this job. Sales numbers don't really excite me, BESS numbers do.
I can't say for certain what BB's aspirations include with his project but I can say that we are all on the same side with regard to quantifying edge sharpness information...and that's a good thing.
RE: Opinions and advice on my sharpness tester idea. - Blade Banter - 04-20-2018
(04-19-2018, 07:59 AM)KnifeGrinders Wrote: The idea, the principle has been in the air since 2000, and since then I've seen dozens of similar makeshifts good for personal use only, and even so with many reservations.
What made that principle a method and those home-made devices an instrument was the EOU highly standardized test media, technical & firmware solution for reproducible results, and the internationally recognized BESS scale tied to a standard DE razor as a unit and backed by SEM data.
Mike's instruments are capable of telling edge radius in nm, and enable us exchange sharpness data over the globe.
Mike B. has spent best years of his life to have this giant task completed for us to enjoy.
Refusing fruits of his labor is beyond my comprehension.
ONLY Mike's instruments and the BESS scale have made possible the "edge stability" SET project to be carried out in collaboration between the USA, Australia and UK.
I really appreciate the passion and belief in the EOU device and BESS standards. I started this journey purchasing pocket knives based on reviewers and their opinions. Through reviews there has been statements of "feel" statements such as the sharpness or feel in hand. Action of a flipper being "good" I started reviews as an outlet to talk to people about the hobby as I don't know people in the area that like knives and even made some folks at work feel uneasy when I pulled out my Kershaw Fraxion which is under 3" blade.
I tried to figure out the best way I could figure to measure things. Starting with the preasure needed to actuate a flipper knife. As the shape is similar to a trigger and the trigger pull gauges that keep the reading at the "break" .I decided to give it a try. Then went onto the dental floss.
I found the EOU unit when doing research on what was available for knife sharpness tests to try to incorporate my pull gauge which I purchased for reviews. There were factors like blade angle and consistency in cutting location. It's been a process and as crazy as it is and would agree suprised that Mike allowed me to post an item that is attempting to measure what his equipment already does, but I had a pull gauge and that spawned the device.
As far as goals with the device is to incorporate it into a review, other than what see on just about all YouTube channels the standard paper test. I have no goals to produce the tester, and want to be able to keep the test standard while testing mutiple areas.
Again the feedback innvaluable and thank you for your time, or if you have questions please contact me.
RE: Opinions and advice on my sharpness tester idea. - Mark Reich - 04-20-2018
I sincerely Thank You for being here, Mr. BB. I appreciate your diligence and respect your attitude and candor. You make it easy to tell that you are a real knife aficionado, and take sharpening seriously. Those two qualities are not often combined.
I'm happy but not surprised that Mike has welcomed you with open arms. I hope you remain feeling welcome and at home here.
Don't let the sheeple bum you out. The brighter ones will remember you carry a useful tool, and they'll seek you out in time of need. Your familiarity and guidance will be helpful when you logically tell them they need to carry their own knife.
RE: Opinions and advice on my sharpness tester idea. - Blade Banter - 06-07-2018
(04-18-2018, 01:35 PM)Mark Reich Wrote: Yes Mr. Blade Banter, I applaud your ingenuity and your effort most sincerely!
I recognize the feedback as good suggestions too.
I don't have any of the pre-strung BESS test media holders, but I wonder if they could be incorporated.
I've been able to incorporate the prestrung test media in my now ver. 2.5
RE: Opinions and advice on my sharpness tester idea. - Blade Banter - 06-07-2018
(04-18-2018, 09:02 AM)Jan Wrote: Mr. Blade Banter welcome to the forum.I tried the pull gauge applying direct force and it provides a lower number than in the horizontal format. I have been able to use the prestrung media and I did a butter knife which met up with the Bess chart.
Thanks for posting the video with your sharpness tester. It uses the same principle as Mike’s instruments.
From physical point of view we have to measure the force necessary to cut the test medium.
I am wondering about the way how you use the Lyman trigger pull gauge. Your video shows that the pull is oriented rather horizontally and so only small part of this pull acts vertically and contributes to the cutting process.
I would recommend to orient the pull vertically, downwards. Than the reading of the pull weight can be used as a measure of edge sharpness.
Jan
RE: Opinions and advice on my sharpness tester idea. - Rupert Lucius - 06-07-2018
My son and I use the pre strung media
Rupert
RE: Opinions and advice on my sharpness tester idea. - Ken S - 06-07-2018
I spent my working years installing and repairing telephone circuits. The telephone uses the receiver invented by Bell and the carbon transmitter invented by Edison. The two were rivals, however, combining their inventions has contributed significantly to the quality of transmission we enjoyed with landlines.
I have seen the benefits of sharing information on both this and the Tormek forums. One person has a spark of a good idea. Adding the good will and experience of the group advances it dramatically. I like the open, non competitive sharing of bessex. Mike has inspired this camaraderie by his own example. Mike, I do not expect EOU to make you the next billionaire, however, this friendly band of sharpeners you have created has been pushing back the frontiers and enjoying it.
Ken
RE: Opinions and advice on my sharpness tester idea. - Rupert Lucius - 06-08-2018
Ken you express my feelings - thank you.
Rupert
RE: Opinions and advice on my sharpness tester idea. - Mike Brubacher - 06-08-2018
Thank you very much for those kind sentiments Ken and Rupert. A conspiracy of one gathers little momentum without
co-conspirators however. Ken, your Viel project thread provided a blueprint for the variable speed conversion process while Rupert and Henry provided much help and support. KG publishes detailed videos showing the steps taken to achieve 75 BESS knife edges and Grepper posts ready-to- manufacture drawings for his Kally knife rest and platen creations. Meanwhile, Mark Reich and his group of knifemakers on this Exchange freely disgorge tried and true methods relevant to sharpening and bladesmithing. Methods divulged that have taken them dozens of years, investment and hard work to learn.
Jan developed an HRC linearity tool that solved a riddle that has existed for a hundred years and then just gave it to us all.
Sure you can find all kinds of advice, both valuable and useless, on a dozen different knife forum platforms but the difference, as pointed out by Ken and Rupert is this; BESS Exchange members don't hold their cards close to the chest. The BESS Exchange exists to help knife sharpeners with their sharpening efforts and that's just what we do. All of us.