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+--- Thread: The alternative for a sharpening steel? (/showthread.php?tid=248)
RE: The alternative for a sharpening steel? - me2 - 01-15-2018
When I was using the smooth spine of another knife, I was testing whether the edge on my knives was actually abrading or was just rolling over. I found that even the edge on an annealed 1095 blade could be maintained for a long time with just the spine of another knife. An actual hardened blade was even longer. Shocking I know. But, even the annealed blade didn't wear much, or the polished spine of another knife was actually able to abrade it quite a bit.
I found the key was light pressure, not even the weight of the knife, and using as few passes as possible. The first pass on each side was edge trailing, the remainder were edge leading.
RE: The alternative for a sharpening steel? - EOU - 01-15-2018
We're not shocked at all Me2. You used the spine of a knife and we used a Sharp Pad. For thirteen months we tracked a santoku knife that was used, at least, daily in the kitchen. The edge was straightened frequently and showed little loss of edge sharpness after straightening. After thirteen months the edge sharpness simply fell off a cliff. We assume because the edge had rolled and been straightened so many times that it finally just broke off.
RE: The alternative for a sharpening steel? - Mark Reich - 01-15-2018
(01-15-2018, 01:25 PM)Ken S Wrote: Interesting post. I am sure my thoughts are influenced by my diet. I eat very little meat, so the bulk of my kitchen knife work is cutting vegetables. I do not mean that as a social commentary, merely a look into what influences my thoughts. My dietary preferences aside, I am still interested in expanding the scope of my sharpening knowledge.
Ken
Commendable, Mr. Ken.
I like toothy edges for vegies. I like all kinds of peppers and tomatoes a lot. With the tough-ish, smooth skin and soft insides, tooth is fairly critical.. Other favorite veggies like zucchini and cucumbers with thick skin are also more easily separated with tooth. Carrots and other "hard" veggies don't require tooth, but I still use the same "vegetable knife", a Japanese nakiri. I consider nakiris one of the handful of "essential" kitchen knives.
RE: The alternative for a sharpening steel? - Mark Reich - 01-15-2018
(01-15-2018, 09:01 PM)me2 Wrote: When I was using the smooth spine of another knife, I was testing whether the edge on my knives was actually abrading or was just rolling over. I found that even the edge on an annealed 1095 blade could be maintained for a long time with just the spine of another knife. An actual hardened blade was even longer. Shocking I know. But, even the annealed blade didn't wear much, or the polished spine of another knife was actually able to abrade it quite a bit.
I found the key was light pressure, not even the weight of the knife, and using as few passes as possible. The first pass on each side was edge trailing, the remainder were edge leading.
Interesting, but why would you use an annealed blade?
It would be significant if you could abrade steel, even annealed steel, on smooth steel. There is no abrasive to make that happen.
RE: The alternative for a sharpening steel? - me2 - 01-15-2018
Just curious, and to set a lower limit for performance. Annealed steel has a much higher carbide volume fraction than hardened steel, it's just much softer. I wanted to see what would happen, see how low performance really was, and see how old knives that predate hardening would do, ie are these still useful. It was inspired by some research that found some old wootz blades were not martensite (the hard phase you want after quenching), but fine pearlite with various additional carbides. Fine pearlite is still fairly strong, but not like martensite can be.
RE: The alternative for a sharpening steel? - me2 - 01-15-2018
Oh, also I wanted to see if adhesive wear between the blade edge and spine might happen. I found no evidence of that, but it would be tough to see at home.
RE: The alternative for a sharpening steel? - me2 - 01-15-2018
In hind sight, the use of a stainless spine and 1095 edge was a bad choice for adhesive wear, but sometimes you gotta go with what you got.
RE: The alternative for a sharpening steel? - Mark Reich - 01-16-2018
Interesting. Thank you for the explanation.
Just because I've never heard of something means very little, and you are able to come up with all sorts of things I haven't heard of, so I appreciate your contributions.
I moved my questions to a more relevant thread.
Thank you, Mr. Me2.
RE: The alternative for a sharpening steel? - scott.livesey - 01-17-2018
would a plain leather strap be an effective alternative? I don't use a steel. For touch-ups, I use a very fine diamond bench hone, one or two strokes per side is usually enough.
RE: The alternative for a sharpening steel? - Mark Reich - 01-17-2018
Mr. Scott, I think bare leather is a fair alternative, because it would tend to straiten a rolled edge without abrasion. It doesn't work as well as a smooth steel IMHO.
Smooth steels are great for maintaining a polished edge on soft steel, against rolling and denting. Actually best IMHO.
Leather with abrasive compound is different, as any other abrasive would be. Arkansas stones, especially the Hard ones, provide so little abrasion, I would include them as good edge straiteners. Anything diamond, CBN or ceramic are high end end abrasive, but at finest grits abrasion would probably be secondary to straitening soft steel.