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+--- Thread: Viel motor alternatives (/showthread.php?tid=200)
RE: Viel motor alternatives - Bud - 11-17-2017
I take it that you guys are doing something special with a Viel. I've been trying to build a knife rest for my Kally but I understand that Viels already include an angle guide. Maybe that's the route I should go and save myself a lot of thinking. Obviously the new plate is some kind of motor mount so is this project motor related or does it include something else as well? If you've built a better mousetrap I'd like to know about it if you don't mind.
RE: Viel motor alternatives - Ken S - 11-17-2017
(11-16-2017, 08:40 PM)grepper Wrote: Mr. Ken sayeth, "However, I do not think this dimension is critical."
Thanks. I guess I'm clueless about how things bolt to the Viel. We'll just wait until the plates arrive from Mr. Mike and then go from there.
Mr. Grepper,
I can see where my comment might seem confusing. I was refering to the holes drilled in the plate to mount the plate to the Viel frame. These holes don't align with any predrilled (factory) holes in the Viel frame. The difficult part is aligning the plate and the frame. Thatis why I chamfered the face of the plate where the plate meets the frame. The inside of the frame has a radius where the frame is bent to 90°. The chamfer allows us to align the plate cleanly with the side and bottom, thus having accurate, repeatable horizontal and vertical alignment. Once the plate and frame are aligned, the mounting holes can be placed anywhere (within reason) where there is enough metal to metal. If that spot must share the same space with the pulley, the frame holehead bolt.
I didn't like the original placement of the lower left(looking out toward where the pulley is mounted) mounting hole. My Viel is the newer design with a trapezoidal frame opening. The lower bolt hole was uncomfortably close to the frame edge for me. I think it would actually work. I would just want to grind off a bit of the washer so that it didn't protrude. I would do this if there was no other choice. In this case, I think going to a single, center located hole will work fine. That dimension would be 2.00oc from either the top or bottom reference edge, +or- .500” :
As I stated, I don't think the placement holes is critical. I know that as a precision draftsman this drives you nuts. 
Sorry about that. I mounted the motor in Gen II (variable speed motor with six inch original pulley) using the lever handle supplied with the motor. As I recall, I had this idea from watching a Maxtheknife you tube. I sawed off the bent part of the lever. The difficult was aligning the frame and bracket. Once I had the two parts aligned and clamped, I drilled two holes through both surfaces with my battery drill for the bolts. This somewhat primitive arrangement works fine. If I had not chosen to move to Gen III with the smaller pulley, this arrangement would be permanent.
The alignment of the three holes for the motor mount is more critical. If need be, minor misalignment can be corrected with a round file. This is rather bush league, but functional. Surprisingly, the exact position of the motor is not critical. For horizontal positioning, the two platen bolts are in slots for repositioning. For vertical positioning, my Mr. Technical Support, Mr Rupert, wisely raises the top pulley using eleven half inch flat washers. That could easily be plus or minus a washer.
The plates Mike is making up will be a giant improvement. I would rate my shop and skills as average homeowner. I was able to mount the partially predrilled plates. I also made up three plates, not well, but very adequately. I would gladly have used a prealigned and drilled plate, especially a nicely finished plate. Between Mike's plates and Steve's factory modified pulleys, which do not require any motor shaft reduction (soon to be available from sharpeningmadeeasy.com), Viel conversions are better, easier, and less expensive than mine was.
We are moving forward.
Ken
RE: Viel motor alternatives - grepper - 11-17-2017
Don't give up on your Kally yet Mr. Bud.
I've been working on a Kally knife rest for some time now, and will post more about it very soon. This drawing is nowhere even close to the the current design, but just to give you an idea of the general principal:
[attachment=343]
RE: Viel motor alternatives - Bud - 11-18-2017
I will go into a holding pattern which isn't difficult because I was already in a holding pattern. Looks very interesting Grepper and nice drawing so thank you. I hope that you won't make me wait too long now that you have me excited. I'm circling and about out of fuel. I'm also frustrated that I can't do a better job of grinding freehand than I do. I can get edges sharp but not consistently sharp along the length of the blade. This is as measured by my edge tester. I'm convinced that it is mostly due to the inconsistency of my grinding angle. If I really concentrate, consistency gets better. If I don't, worse. Concentration takes time and I'm usually in a hurry. I've got a pile of knives to sharpen for myself and friends but am determined to up my game before I dive into them. Haven't seen anything back from the Viel guys regarding my question so your help with the Kally is much appreciated. Instead of throwing my Kally in for a Viel I might just end up with two Kallys. I hate taking the time to change belts. Like I said I'm usually in a hurry.
RE: Viel motor alternatives - Rupert Lucius - 11-18-2017
I, have flown "hard instruments" and have asked for a "holding pattern" to get my thoughts together and review my notes, recheck the approach plate etc. Also know about fuel and no filling station or tanker.
Two SM 1's would be an excellent decision. Last week MSC offered them for 197.00$ shipped.
Free hand belt is the way to sharpen - develop a sight picture looking down into the space between the belt and blade if using a vertical belt
A fellow sharpener who mounted two belt machines on a short wall, the (belt) about 20* below the horizon, placing the belt in a horizontal plane. Keep the blade parallel with your rooms ceiling and or floor and the results will be excellent. Credit goes to Mr. B who shared this years and years ago.
For sharpening knife blades this may be the best guided machine: http://amktactical.com/AMK-75-1x30-Knife-Sharpener
Mr. Poe can stretch the base and create a 1x42" machine I like the 1x30" format less belt flutter.
Talk with Mr. Poe the designer at 937) 344 4488.
Rupert
RE: Viel motor alternatives - Ken S - 11-19-2017
Mr. Bud,
I owe you and Mr. Grepper an explanation. The Viel has received much more press than the Kally. I can't speak for others, however I should share my reason for choosing the Viel instead of the Kally. There was a definite reason.
I first learned about the Viel from Leonard Lee's Sharpening video. I have always held the late Mr. Lee in high regard. He demonstrated what a useful and versatile tool the Viel could be. More recently, my friend and sharpening mentor, Steve Bottorff, also demonstrated how effectively he uses his Viel in his Sharpening School DVD.
Two respected respected sharpening experts recommending the Viel. Did that mean the Viel was a better or more useful tool than the Kally? Absolutely not. All it means is that I had not yet met any Kally experts. Do not rush to judgement against the Kally presuming my total lack of experience with the Kally.
I would suggest in the interest of fairness, that the moderator allow Kally owners to testify why they like their Kallies
Ken
RE: Viel motor alternatives - Rupert Lucius - 11-19-2017
Ken -
A friend purchased several SM 1's and removed their Baldor motors and installed said motors (NEMA 48) to several Viels.
He was going to "chunck" the skeletons - my response being a collector of treasure, asked for the skeletons - ask and you may receive - several months months later the skeletons arrived via UPS.
Rupert is going to ship one of the SM 1 skeleton to Ken. Ken did not ask, but Ken will receive.
No motor, no table ,no platen and no drive wheel - a Kalamazoo skeleton ready for a Penn motor with a Viel 3 3/4" drive wheel, perfect marriage.
THE REAL DIFFERENCE BETWEEN the Viel and Kalamazoo is the tower that supports the idler wheel.
The grinding belt is centered over the front of the Viel tower.
The grinding belt is offset to the right side of the tower on Kalamazoo.
Where the belt runs is important when making modifications - such as scissor sharpening and etc.
The Viel has a built in receiver designed to receive Viel accessories and etc. Very easy to attach one off accessories.
For a robust portable inexpensive machine nothing beats the Kalamazoo, nothing. Our Moderator Mark R. will back me up on that statement?
RE: Viel motor alternatives - Ken S - 11-19-2017
Rupert,
Thank you! I will install the almost new NEMA 48 motor from Viel Gen I. It is a worthy motor and in need of returning to active service, even if on the other team. I will purchase a Michigan hat and in my Walter Mitty world, pretend that I am the great Mr. Grepper.
Ken
ps Please do not mention this. I live in Columbus, Ohio, where wearing Michigan clothing is considered an act of treason, especially before the Ohio State vs U of Michigan game. My grandson would disown me.
Thanks again for the gift of the Kally!
RE: Viel motor alternatives - Rupert Lucius - 11-19-2017
(11-19-2017, 10:48 AM)Ken S Wrote: Rupert,
Thank you! I will install the almost new NEMA 48 motor from Viel Gen I. It is a worthy motor and in need of returning to active service, even if on the other team. I will purchase a Michigan hat and in my Walter Mitty world, pretend that I am the great Mr. Grepper.
Ken
ps Please do not mention this. I live in Columbus, Ohio, where wearing Michigan clothing is considered an act of treason, especially before the Ohio State vs U of Michigan game. My grandson would disown me.
Thanks again for the gift of the Kally!
If you can not scrounge a belt drive wheel - Kalamazoo will provide one for 49.00$. Maybe one of the after market accessory makers will provide you with a platen only the Shadow Knows. The Kalamazoo work table is priced at 15.00$.
Lee Valley tool rest may be the thing (Veritas grinder tool rest).
Kalamazoo engineering acknowledged Mark Reich platen design by copying said design, incorporated as Kalamazoo accesory Part Number 563-042 priced at 49.00$. For knife sharpening Mark's is the best.
Buy direct from Reich Precision (our Moderator Mark).
RE: Viel motor alternatives - Ken S - 11-19-2017
Thanks for the info, Rupert. Between Mark Reich for Kally, EOU, and Steve Bottorff for Viel and Tormek, we have the waterfront well covered.
Ken
Please let me know the shipping cost for the Kally. I will send you a check.