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+--- Thread: Viel motor alternatives (/showthread.php?tid=200)
Viel motor alternatives - grepper - 11-15-2017
Just an idea. I know a lot of folks use old treadmill motors for making homemade belt sanders and motor speed controllers are available n eBay, Amazon etc. for low cost. Penn State is not the only source for motors. I actually spoke with a guy at PS and they just order the motors from China. There are lots of inexpensive DC electric motors.
I don't know enough about DC electric motors to recommend one, but a bit of research or a trip to your local electric motor store should be able to come up with an alternative to the PS stuff. You might even be able to come up with something more powerful.
Or... just put a longer shaft on the pulley and stick another pulley on the other end. Then you could grab a belt and hook it up to the PTO on a tractor! Now that would be some POWER!
The idea is that there are lots of options. Check out some of this stuff:
http://straightrazorplace.com/workshop/17875-low-budget-grinder.html
I think you will enjoy this little video. Belt sander from start to finish:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oSTMGmMKWw
http://www.ibuildit.ca/Workshop%20Projects/belt-grinder-4.html
BTW, that little video is a blast to watch. I got a good chuckle of out some parts. He is an excellent hammer user!
RE: Viel motor alternatives - wadebevan - 11-15-2017
Hey Grepper,
Though I have not yet finished my DC motor project on my Kally, I have all the pieces ready.
Since I had an old treadmill, I pulled the guts out. It says the motor is rated at 2.77 hp, which I find hard to believe.
But, it probably has enough hp.
The best part is that it was easy to pull the speed controller out as a separate unit, hook up a 1k potentiometer and control the speed.
Pretty simple stuff, and a nice reuse of an unused large object in my house!
Will post pics once I get it moving forward...
Wade.
Oh, and I enjoyed the video!
But, it left me wanting to send the dude a MIG welder
RE: Viel motor alternatives - grepper - 11-15-2017
Outstanding Mr. Wade!
When you think about it, those treadmill motors have to be some tough little suckers. They handle the weight of a human.
RE: Viel motor alternatives - EOU - 11-16-2017
Hello Grepper and Wade! Good to hear from you again Wade. Your projects are always very interesting and we look forward to more detail on the Kally conversion once you get down down the road a little further.
In the meantime we've been playing a small role with Ken's Viel conversion. We have manufactured a mounting plate for Ken's motor/grinder conversion and that plate is currently in the hands of UPS and headed to Ken's house. We want to let Ken know, via the BESS Exchange, that we have discovered a substantial discrepancy between the original take-off dimensions (Mark R's) and the provided drawings from which the plate was cut. Substantial discrepancies apply only to the hole spacing at the far-end grinder mounting holes. Effectively the hole spacing grew from 2.5 inches OC to 2.67 OC. This would be enough difference to cause a substantial "miss" in hole alignment assuming the original dimension was correct and the drawing is incorrect.
Not to worry though if this turns out to be the case. This is why we made a prototype plate. If the lower holes don't align we have already deduced where the problem lies and how to fix it. Noodle the two prototype plate mounting holes out, if you choose, and bolt it up. We'll make appropriate changes to the subsequent set of plates.
Don't know. Perhaps the original take-off was in error and the drawing is correct. We'll see but as they say, forewarned is forearmed so have your "noodler tool" at the ready Ken.
The original take-off dimension is in small type size and the drawing in large type size.
[attachment=339]
RE: Viel motor alternatives - Ken S - 11-16-2017
I am anticipating a delightful lunch and afternoon with Steve Bottorff this Saturday. I don't think the new plate from Mike will quite have arrived, however, I have my Viel Gen III with a more primitive plate, and will bring it with me to show Steve. Steve was my inspiration to purchase the Viel (Gen I) through conversation at his shop and his Sharpening School DVD. I value his comments.
Even though this project has been dubbed "Ken's Viel", there are several key people who are exchange members.
I will keep you all posted.
Ken
RE: Viel motor alternatives - grepper - 11-16-2017
Mr. Ken,
Assuming your "more primitive" plate bolts to the Viel frame OK, could you please measure the distance, hole center to hole center, of the two bolt holes shown in Mr. EOU's post above and post the results?
RE: Viel motor alternatives - Ken S - 11-16-2017
Will do, Mr. Grepper. However, I do not think this dimension is critical. In fact, at my request, the latest version added a single hole which was centered. I find the bottom hole closer to the trapezoid edge of the Viel frame.
Henry has the original Viel with no trapezoid. I am curious to see how this plate design works with the original Viel.
I am also curious to see if the same plate also works with Gen II, the Viel with the variable speed motor and the original sic inch pulley. It would need to be positioned higher and more centered.
Ken
RE: Viel motor alternatives - Rupert Lucius - 11-16-2017
Have several blank plates from: https://www.metalsupermarkets.com/store-finder/ that may arrive tomorrow (Friday)?
As usual Ken is spot on: I am also curious to see if the same plate also works with Gen II, the Viel with the variable speed motor and the original six inch pulley. It would need to be positioned higher and more centered.
Grepper can do within minutes using CAD skills what will take me hours to create by the old do and try method.
Both drive wheels 3 3/4" and 6" can be done on one plate - no problem.
Rupert
RE: Viel motor alternatives - grepper - 11-16-2017
Mr. Ken sayeth, "However, I do not think this dimension is critical."
Thanks. I guess I'm clueless about how things bolt to the Viel. We'll just wait until the plates arrive from Mr. Mike and then go from there.
RE: Viel motor alternatives - Rupert Lucius - 11-16-2017
(11-16-2017, 07:47 PM)Rupert Lucius Wrote: Have several blank plates from: https://www.metalsupermarkets.com/store-finder/ that may arrive tomorrow (Friday)?
As usual Ken is spot on: I am also curious to see if the same plate also works with Gen II, the Viel with the variable speed motor and the original six inch pulley. It would need to be positioned higher and more centered.
Grepper can do within minutes using CAD skills what will take me hours to create by the old do and try method.
Both drive wheels 3 3/4" and 6" can be done on one plate - no problem.
Rupert
These are the NEMA spec's that the Viel frame is designed (NEMA 48) - the D dimension being the most important.
https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/nema-electrical-motor-frame-dimensions-d_1504.html
(11-16-2017, 08:55 PM)Rupert Lucius Wrote:Another thought:(11-16-2017, 07:47 PM)Rupert Lucius Wrote: Have several blank plates from: https://www.metalsupermarkets.com/store-finder/ that may arrive tomorrow (Friday)?
As usual Ken is spot on: I am also curious to see if the same plate also works with Gen II, the Viel with the variable speed motor and the original six inch pulley. It would need to be positioned higher and more centered.
Grepper can do within minutes using CAD skills what will take me hours to create by the old do and try method.
Both drive wheels 3 3/4" and 6" can be done on one plate - no problem.
Rupert
These are the NEMA spec's that the Viel frame is designed (NEMA 48) - the D dimension being the most important.
https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/nema-electrical-motor-frame-dimensions-d_1504.html
Using a 42" belt with 3.75 drive wheel and 3.75 idler wheel the center to center distance is 15.109"
Using a 42" belt with 6.00 drive wheel and 3.75 idler wheel the center to center distance is 13.294"
A difference of 1.815" for motor shaft above the Viel floor plate (top) - lower or higher
Now consider moving the motor shaft forward or rearward as Ken suggest and we are there (depends where we are coming from or going to).